Queen Rania’s Discussion with Pamela Cerdeira at the Mexico Siglo XXI Conference

PAMELA CERDEIRA: This is a thrilling moment. You’ve talked about technology and what it poses for everyone – though, there are threats. You’ve been an advocate for education. So, how can we make artificial intelligence, not to widen the already wide gap education has in the world?

QUEEN RANIA: Well, we have to be very intentional about it. We can't just leave it to chance. Like you said, in the past, technologies have often expanded the gap between rich and poor nations, favoring already advantaged nations with even more advantages. Now, the great thing about AI is that it is intuitive. It's easy to adopt, unlike previous technologies that required maybe a longer learning curve and some technical training. So, in that regard, I think AI has the potential to really be an incredible democratizer and a significant equalizer when it comes to opportunities, advancement, education, things like that.

If we take education, for example, which is a field I've worked extensively on; AI has the potential to bring in top-quality teaching and tools and resources to schools all over, including in remote areas or in disadvantaged communities. It has the ability to, let's say, help refugee children who have missed out on school through catch-up lessons that are personalized to them, anytime, anywhere. But the catch is that we have to work on access. Let's not forget that a third of the world's population doesn't have access to the internet. AI has the potential to broaden that digital divide, with those who are most vulnerable stranded on the wrong side of it.

So, we really need to design AI with equity and affordability in mind. For example, we talk about education offering tools that are available offline or in low-bandwidth areas. I know that most experts are very excited about the potential of AI in healthcare, where it can really have amazing breakthroughs in identifying and curing disease. Again though, it's how we design it. So, it can either really level the playing field or amplify existing inequality.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: And with that in mind, what do you think are its greatest risks and also its greatest opportunities?

QUEEN RANIA: Well, it's funny, because when you speak to experts or pioneers, for every one that predicts an AI-apocalypse, another one will be like, “No, it's fine. You know, you don't have anything to worry about, it's going to be okay.” Here's what I know. The future is unrecognizable to us because we are approaching a moment where AI will supersede your average human in every cognitive task – and that moment is approaching fast. The other thing I know is that every prediction that we've made about AI – AI has exceeded it with its power. The power of AI to learn is exponential, so even the biggest experts can't really tell you what the exact risk is, but there is reason to be concerned.

As I mentioned, whenever there's a disruption, human nature makes us sort of skeptical, apprehensive, because generally, change is something we fear, because we like the familiarity of our comfort zone and that stuff that we know. But when you look at all the disruptions of the past, they have been a net positive for humanity. Having said that, we could have done it better. So, if you take, for example, social media: it has taken so many years for us to really acknowledge that it's really had a major effect on the mental health of young people, that it's caused division, it's caused bullying, abuse, etcetera. And then we started to put in the guardrails. I would like us to start faster when it comes to AI.

And, as I was saying earlier, AI affects every aspect of our lives, but the conversation is dominated by high-tech and by politicians. People in tech obviously have a built-in bias. They think that AI is the “be all, end all,” and politicians are driven by competition, particularly between China and the US. It's like, who's going to get there faster and get the benefits first? So, our frantic rush to get there is not matched by a caution that we need to be looking at.

So, at the end of the day, I think we need to bring in more people into the conversation, whether it's economists, psychologists, sociologists, philosophers, each from his own perspective, guarding us against what could be a potential risk from AI. Because, like I said, there's no aspect of our lives that won't be affected by it. And in an ideal world – although I think our world finds it very hard to agree on anything – it would be great if we as a community, international community, could come together around a set of principles and guidelines and values that will determine how we use AI, if only from the perspective of protecting our species.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: There's people still thanking ChatGPT, just in case robots rule…

You talked about Gaza, and I think it's going to take us years to acknowledge the huge horrors people in Gaza are going through. You've been a hope to a lot of humanitarian crisis. But what makes Gaza different? What have you seen going on in Gaza?

QUEEN RANIA: Well, I think we need to look at the larger context of this, which is the Palestinian-Israeli conflict that has been going on for so long. This is the longest-lasting conflict in our world today. That's the first thing. Second thing is, it is an occupation of a helpless people by a supposed democracy. Third thing is, you know, through the decades of this occupation and through its conduct in this last war, the ongoing war in Gaza, Israel has defied several UN resolutions, international law, international humanitarian law, human rights conventions…

And if you look around the world today, where else can you see conflict where children are intentionally targeted? Aid workers and health workers are killed? Journalists? You know, you've had almost 280 journalists killed. Not since World War II have we seen this number of journalists being specifically targeted. Hungry people trying to get aid are being shot at. Even according to Israel's military, their numbers, they came up with a report saying that 83% of the people killed in Gaza were civilians. Just to put that in perspective, compare that to Ukraine where it's 10%, Afghanistan where it's 8%. So, in today's world, Gaza exists in its own realm of cruelty.

And it's not just the brutality of the war; it's the global response to it. It took two years for the world to start asking questions. It's almost as if every time Israel crossed a moral or legal line, it was always excused, it was always justified, while the Palestinians were cast as the victim.

And the horrifying thing about this war is that it's entirely man-made. Today, Gaza is uninhabitable. 60% of the buildings have been destroyed. Every civilian infrastructure has been targeted, whether it's schools, hospitals, roads, churches, mosques, agriculture, electricity, water… So, it's uninhabitable, and that is not a byproduct of the war. That is part of its blueprint. The war was intended to destroy Gaza, and make it uninhabitable, so then they can say, “Oh, well, you can't live here. You got to go somewhere else.”

Even what we're seeing today… The IPC, which is the world authority on food security, confirmed famine in Gaza. Gaza City alone has half a million people starving. Now, that's not because there's a shortage of food; there's a lot of food. It's just not allowed to get to the people. So again, this famine is man-made, and you know, it's just heartbreaking to see. One in three people have not eaten in a long time. One in five children are severely malnourished, and children die at twice the rate of adults when there's a shortage of food, because their nutritional needs are much higher. So, an entire generation of Palestinians are being targeted – and for a lot of them, it's already too late, but some can be saved. But the only thing that can do that is a permanent ceasefire and an uninterrupted and free and safe flow of aid for those that need it.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: And why, it seems the world is not listening to it? We've seen these images...

QUEEN RANIA: Yes. You know, it's like I said, it took almost two years for the world to… two years of killing, of displacement; 2 million people have been displaced from their homes, of hunger, of wholesale destruction, for people to start asking the hard questions, and that tells me something. It's because, when it comes to the Gaza War or this conflict, there's always been a bias in how it's framed, with Israel being cast as the only moral actor.

So, for many people, Israel can do no wrong; there's always an excuse to justify the unjustifiable. While the Palestinians have been cast as like the terrorists or the violent people. And every time you try to explain the context of this war, to say that this hasn't begun on October 7, that there have been decades of occupation and apartheid and blockades, people turn away, they don't want to listen. They call it irrelevant. It's only when the suffering became so impossible to ignore that people started questioning their assumptions.

And I think this instinct to defend Israel first and then ask questions later has proven very stubborn, because it is a result of an intentional, decades-long effort to dehumanize Palestinians, to cast them as people who are not deserving of the same rights as everyone else. So, I think if we want to make sure that this never happens again, we need to understand that peace cannot be achieved when you constantly blame one side and excuse the other. We need to stop seeing Palestinians as a problem, but as a people, who deserve the same rights. It's not about choosing sides. It's just about applying the same standards of justice on both sides.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: Where… Where do you think… They're saying “Free Palestine.”

QUEEN RANIA: Thank you.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: Where do you think the solution should come from?

QUEEN RANIA: Well, you know, it's not surprising that the atmosphere is not very conducive to peace right now, because there's so much anger and grief and despair and mistrust and disillusionment and cynicism, on all sides. You know, among Jewish Israelis, only 16% believe that peaceful coexistence with the Palestinians is possible. In the meantime, the policy by the government there is to expand the occupation, to take more land, to build more settlements. Palestinians have been living in a hellscape in the last two years, both in Gaza and in the West Bank, at the hands of Israelis. So, it's hard for them to feel that there's a potential for peace.

So, even though peace looks like it's so far away, and you know, I think all these repeated cycles of violence have taught a generation of Palestinians and Israelis that violence is the only answer. But, at the end of the day, you see that peace is far away until you ask, what is the alternative? The alternative is what we're seeing right now, what we're living right now. And is this sustainable? How long can we continue this way?

So, even though it seems so far away, and I'm not saying there are any easy solutions or quick fixes; the injustices of the past cannot be undone. But maybe we can at least agree or rally behind a set of principles that can maybe take us to a better place. If we agree that international law must prevail, no exceptions. If we agree that human rights are universal and unconditional; they're non-negotiable, even if one country has more influence or more power. If we agree that, for justice to prevail, there needs to be accountability. Wrongdoing must not be met with exceptions, it has to be met with repercussions. If we agree that security is not a zero-sum game. For decades, Israelis have been trying to ensure the safety of their people by denying Palestinians the right to the same. No side's insecurity serves the other, it just basically feeds into this loop of retaliation and repression. Only peace can break that cycle.

At the end of the day, if we just see that to achieve peace in our region, we need statehood for the Palestinians, security for Israel, and stability for our region. That's something that we can rally behind. And I think maybe the grief that you were seeing, and just the impossible circumstances in our region today… we know that this cannot continue. Something has to come out. And it's either the extremists, who do not care about humanity, who are willing to make the rules up as they go along, either they get the upper hand, or we try to save what's left of our humanity.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: You wrote a children's book based on people from different origins living together. In this highly polarized world we're living in, how can this idea help us?

QUEEN RANIA: You know, it's funny…I wrote this book 15 years ago, but I still get asked about it often, and that tells me something. It tells me that, you know, even though our world can be changing in so many different ways, the stories that touch on our experience as humans remain relevant through the generations because things can change, but our human nature remains the same.

So, this book touches on the idea that whenever we meet somebody who's different from us, our reflex is to fear them or to approach them with skepticism. So, this is about two girls in a school who come from different backgrounds and nationalities, and initially they're not sure of each other, but then they find common ground over food when they exchange sandwiches - peanut butter sandwich and the hummus sandwich. And then they realize, oh, you know, they like it, and they become friends after that. So, it's really just touching on the idea that, you know, our lives are so enriched when we embrace diversity, because it gives us much more insight and perspective. And we know this instinctively, but there are studies that back that up. For example, in the business world, studies have shown that companies who hire people of different nationalities and races and ages, they outperform their counterparts.

But I think human nature, sometimes it's easier to reject something we don't know rather than try to understand it. But you know, each one of us, we're more than one thing. We're so complex. Something very fundamental is lost when you reduce a person to their political view or their religion or the color of their skin. At the end of the day, you're so much better off trying to understand that person and learn more than to try to reject them.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: And still in politics, the idea of nationalists, it's kind of funny finding a way back in the world. How have these ideas affected all of us?

QUEEN RANIA:  You know, I just find it ironic that this, like populism and nationalism, has almost been a reaction to globalization and integration. Like when technology and travel opened our world up more, we started interacting with more people who are different from us. The contact with them increased. And as I said earlier, it's easier to sort of reject something that's different and to fear it than try to embrace it. And for a lot of politicians, fear is the cheapest and easiest tool to power. Because you can manipulate people's fears, validate them, and cast yourself as being with the people against this common enemy.

So, it's almost a low hanging fruit to populism. And the division in our world today is becoming much deeper than just east, west, north, south, or right wing, left wing, or let's say religious or secular, or pro or anti. Our societies are splitting into smaller and smaller segments, each stuck in their own echo chamber, thinking that they're right, and the rest of the world doesn't get it. But when you think about it, at the end of the day, we all kind of want the same things. Everybody wants safety. They want to be able to provide for their loved ones, they want healthcare, they want a healthy environment to call home. We may disagree on the ends, on how to get there…on the means, I mean, of how to get there, but we don't disagree on the end. So. I think we're not as divided as we think we are.

We just need to spend less energy focusing on fighting each other, and focus that energy on actually trying to deal with our shared problems. But that takes openness. It takes a willingness to speak to each other, dialog, empathy, a willingness to compromise. That's what we kind of need right now. Otherwise, all you're going to have is just boundaries between people and the problems become exacerbated. And you can see this, for example, where fear can make people choose things that are actually bad for them. Like, let's say, many countries in Europe, as you know, they’re aging populations, and in order to maintain their productivity, they need to have workers come in. But because of this fear of migrants, they're willing to hurt their own economies rather than allow those workers to come in. So, this is where fear can create populism for certain politicians, but you're almost shooting yourself in the foot.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: We could think that religion is one of those topics that keeps us apart. Though you've spoken a lot of the importance of interfaith dialog, what does your faith mean to you?

QUEEN RANIA: Well, my faith is really important to me. For me, it's not just a set of rituals and rules, it's a way of life. It guides how we move in this world. Islam itself, the meaning of it is to surrender in total humility, in absolute humility, to God. Islam teaches us that people are all equal in front of God, that what defines us is more our actions and the choices that we make. And in Islam, humility is not regarded as a weakness; actually, it's the opposite. It takes a lot of strength to admit weakness, to admit vulnerability, that you don't have everything on control. We pray five times a day, and every time we pray, we sort of bow, and that sort of makes our size smaller. It restores our sense of scale. It reminds us that there's a whole universe out there, and you're not the center of it. It reminds us that we're all flawed, but we're all deserving of forgiveness.

And for as long as I can remember, Islam was viewed with a high degree of suspicion in the world. And I think particularly after the attacks of 9/11, the Islamophobia really skyrocketed, and Muslims were always viewed through the prism of stereotypes, of being violent, of being terrorists, etc. And I always knew Islam as a religion of peace, and it really disturbed me to see it being distorted and slandered in that way, especially when you think that you know, quarter of the world's population are Muslims. So, it didn't make sense to me that 2 billion people could be judged based on the actions of a few extremists. And so as a Muslim with a platform, I felt I had to actually defend it and to remind people that more Muslims have been killed by extremists than non-Muslims. So, at the end of the day, I really do believe that the three religions come from the same source. We believe in the same things, we differ on the details, but we have so much more in common than we think for sure.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: Do you think women in Mexico and Middle East share common challenges?

QUEEN RANIA: Well, the World Economic Forum in 2020, they predicted it would take 99 years for us to achieve global gender parity. They revised that figure this year to 123 years. So, it means that we're moving in the wrong direction. But having said that, I'm very impressed with the progress women have made here in Mexico, especially in the field of politics. And it's not just about electing your first female president, but also you've achieved equal representation in Congress. So that is not only a testament to the female politicians, but also to the Mexican voters for choosing them in. So I think when it comes to women, really, the challenges all over the world are very similar. Societal restrictions, gender based violence, limited opportunities for employment, and when employed, less chances of getting to leadership positions.

So, I think that applies to Arab women as it does to women all over the world. However, I do think that Arab women are often misjudged and underestimated. They're often portrayed as being voiceless and helpless, but that stereotype doesn't apply to many of the women, Arab and Jordanian, that I interact with every day. Obviously, the Arab world is diverse. There are so many countries, so women have different experiences. But for the large part, I'm seeing them really breaking through barriers in every sphere. Whether it's at home, in the workplace, in their local communities, in politics. Of course, there's a lot that still needs to happen. Our practices and a lot of the norms, they still need to evolve. But I think it needs to happen according to our own needs and on our own terms. Not every woman aspires to some Western ideal of what it means to be a modern woman. I think there's more than one way to be empowered and to achieve a meaningful life. As I said in my speech, we don't have to live up to somebody else's standards or definition of what success is. Each one of us can define that definition of success according to our own circumstances, environment, values, things that work for us. And I'm seeing women being more individual like that, and nations gaining that kind of confidence and coming up with their own definitions.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: What has been the hardest lesson you've learned as a queen?

QUEEN RANIA: Well, first of all, I think the first lesson is, whether you're queen or engineer or programmer, architect, life in general, hands you similar lessons, teaches you similar lessons. It obviously changes with the details, but the script is quite similar. For example, when I look around this room, I see so many, you know, very bright, intelligent young people, and I'm sure you all have really clear plans and ideas of what you want to do and how you want to be successful. One thing I've learned is that there's more than one way to achieve success. A lot of times we get stuck thinking that this is the only way to get there. You know you could sometimes be offered choices and you feel like you need to optimize that this is the right choice, this is the wrong choice. Very often, there's no right choice or wrong choice. There's just a choice that you need to make, and it's how you choose to focus on making that choice succeed. Are you going to be focusing on the potentials, on the areas in which you can make it work, or are you going to just be stuck and ruminating about the negative about it? So, I think what would be very bad is to not make a choice, is to be indecisive. That is one thing that you have to avoid.

Another thing you have to avoid is neglect. Anytime you neglect anything in your life, you pay a price. You neglect your health, you're going to get sick. You neglect your relationships, you're going to not have friends. You neglect your work, you're not going to succeed. So, avoiding the neglect. But at the end of the day, just keeping an open mind, understanding that it's really your attitude that's going to make the difference. Luck can come and it can be important. It could come some of the times, but your attitude and perspective is with you all the time, and that's what determines what you get in life. And you know, it's having ambition, having plans. It's good because it drives you. So, it's good to chase what you love, but it's also important to love what you have. Because one is ambition, the other is gratitude, and you need a healthy balance of both to feel fulfilled. So, I mean, that's something I've learned. It takes a while to learn it. I hope you guys learn it a little bit faster than me.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: Please tell us a little bit about your country. What's the first thing that comes to your mind when you think about Jordan?

QUEEN RANIA: Well, you know they say that home is where the heart is. And for me, Jordan is my home and it's my heart. I love every inch of it, and I'm so proud to belong there.

When I speak to people who visit Jordan, they always talk about, you know, the sites, the history, the weather, the food, all those experiences, but really what they speak about most is the people. Jordanians’ hospitality is kind of legendary, because it's very genuine. It's very much a part of our culture. So, yeah, people come to visit the Dead Sea or Petra, but I think it's the Jordanians that make each visit very special.

And as a people, we've been tested; we've been tested with wars on our borders, we've been tested with refugees on our doorstep, we've been tested with just regional tensions… And every time, it's the Jordanian people who have managed to keep the chaos at bay and maintain the stability. I think it's the qualities of integrity, of generosity, of standing up for what's right, of sense of community, that have really kept us together.

You know, it's very easy now in the world to have very similar experiences; the cities sometimes look the same and, you know, the facilities that you see are the same. But I think people are more and more looking for an authentic experience when they travel, and I think that usually comes from the qualities of the people in that country. So, I hope if you ever come to Jordan, you know, I'd love to hear what you have to say about the Jordanian people, because they're really quite unique.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: We'd love to…You recently said that young people should dare to ask the hard questions. People should dare to ask the hard questions. What can you think about the hardest questions humanity should be making itself right now?

QUEEN RANIA: Well, you know, the last couple of years, I think, has been a major eye opener for a lot of us. And that's why I mentioned Gaza, because I think in addition to the brutality of the conflict itself, it's really made us question global values. Because, you know, I was always a believer in human rights, international law, and I just thought that those apply equally. What has been shocking to a lot of people in my region and around the world are some of the double standards that we're seeing where these laws, these values, are not applied equally. So, what's happening has defied so many laws and yet the global response hasn't been what it should be. It's still going on. Today, the war is still going on. There is a famine and a genocide taking place, and nobody is really taking any concrete, tangible steps to stop it from happening. If it was another country, if it was here, if it was Jordan, do you think that would be the case? Why is that?

So, I think we need to ask those hard questions. Are there different standards applied to different countries, and why is that? Why are some countries allowed to get away with certain things? If you look at the response with the war in Ukraine and the war in Gaza, you see the Western world rallying in very clear terms behind the Ukrainian people, rightfully so. Why aren't they doing the same when this is an occupation and people are being killed, and like I said, the conduct of the war, 83% civilians killed compared to 10 in Ukraine. So why is there a different response?

So, these are the tough questions that humanity should be asking, and the reason why I talked about AI is because AI is of our own making. Whether it's going to be a force for good or harm depends on the input we put into AI, the content that we put in there. So, are we teaching AI good values or bad values?

PAMELA CERDEIRA: Hopefully good, yes.

QUEEN RANIA: So far, not really, because we've seen some of the tests that are happening and how AI has developed the ability to lie to humans for its own self-preservation. AI is very resourceful, creative, and has the ability to self-preserve; if we do not put in the right input, then it may not be good for us. So, we need to be clear on our own principles as humans before we can actually hand over the reins to AI.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: We're about to come to an end to this. So, I want to take the last personal question, you've just celebrated 25 years as a queen. You have two beautiful grandchildren. How have your perspective over the world has changed over the years?

QUEEN RANIA: Yeah, I mean, personally, it's a bit of what I was saying earlier. You know, I've realized that the things that make me happy are actually the simple things, not the big things. And a lot of times, the complications in our lives are self-imposed. We make things more complicated for ourselves. It's really the small things that matter. I'm about to tell you what motivates me to get out of bed in the morning is not the amazing things I'm going to achieve during the day. It's just the idea of that hot cup of coffee, you know, I think about that coffee, and that's what gets me out of bed, you know?

What makes me happy is a walk by the beach, a conversation, a heart-to-heart conversation with one of my children. When I speak to Jordanians, the spark in a young person's eyes when they talk to me about this project that they just started, or the pride in a woman who's just found a job and she's feeling empowered because she's making her own income. We complicate happiness, but it's easy. There's two routes to happiness, gratitude, feeling like you appreciate the small things. I mean, not necessarily small, but the things that we take for granted: your family, the sunrise, just the small things, they're around us. Sometimes we choose not to see them. And the second thing is just serving others. And we can all serve others. When I say, serve others, just make somebody's day a little bit better and you'll be surprised how happy that makes you feel. I mean, I used to feel like to be happy, I had to be productive. To be productive, I had to have a full schedule. I completely now don't see it that way. I enjoy the slow moments. There's nothing better. Than my time with…I have two granddaughters, and I just, you know, love spending time with them. I always say they're like my therapy sessions, my free therapy sessions. It's just so wonderful to be with them.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: If we could go back in time and you could talk to your younger self, like, about, I don't know, 18, 19 years old, one advice you'd give yourself.

QUEEN RANIA: I would say, stop questioning yourself and accept some of the flaws, because we are all flawed, and don't be hard on yourself. Try to befriend yourself sooner. We start to become friends with ourselves, maybe in our 40s, 50s, but it's such a self-defeating thing, you know, when you're constantly being hard on yourself and criticizing yourself. Speak to yourself the same way you speak to a friend. Would you tell a friend, oh, I don't think you're good enough to do this. No, you wouldn't. So why do you say it to yourself? So I would just say, you know, set high standards for yourself, but also be kind to yourself, because you're the only one who matters. Don't rely on other people to be kind to you. Don't rely on other people to make you happy. If you love yourself, if you're kind to yourself, that's all you need.

PAMELA CERDEIRA: Your Majesty. It's been a pleasure having you here. That's something we're really grateful for. Thank you very much. Fantastic.

QUEEN RANIA: Thank you.